Forum:Regarding the future in "Quantum Boogaloo"...
(Note: While I have seen the leaked episode (GASP), I intend no spoilers in this topic. I am not responsible for the actions of my fellow editors.) In Phineas and Ferb's Quantum Boogaloo, we learn some interesting facts about our favorite characters' lives twenty years in the future. But my question is, can we really consider them canon? As an example, presume that Candace Flynn and Stacy Hirano are still very close friends in the future timeline. That's all well and good, but present day Candace and Stacy still have their own free will - there's nothing preventing one of them from breaking off the relationship or, for that matter, moving to Gimmelschtump, getting cut off from the rest of society and serving as a lawn gnome. (Focus, Ryan.) Point being, they could choose not to be very close friends in 20 years, and then the future timeline would be inaccurate. So, I think we have to consider the future timeline just one possible way things could turn out, rather than a definitive answer as to how they do. Your thoughts? -- Ryan Stoppable (talk) 01:24, September 21, 2009 (UTC) :This is an episode that is going to require some careful viewing to determine exactly what was affected by the time travel. Just off the top of my head, I think what happened during the credits has a major impact on the events in the rest of the episode. I'm not even going to attempt this until after it premieres on Disney Channel. — RRabbit42 16:00, September 21, 2009 (UTC) ::The credits scene pretty much nullfies the entire experience - so other than details which would occur in any case (such as determined ages) we cant really use it... SomeoneD 16:06, September 21, 2009 (UTC) :::On the other hand, the credits scene also nullifies the very circumstances that allowed that scene to occur in the first place. And now I'm confused. In the infinitely wise words of my namesake, "Time travel: it's a cornucopia of disturbing concepts." -- Ryan Stoppable (talk) 17:20, September 21, 2009 (UTC) ::::Warning, huge post below. TL;DR version is at the bottom. So, in short, the ending of the episode nullfies the episode - but in a unique way, by splitting the time line. In short, it all depends which timeline we view, but it could be (if they have no memories of the expierence) that we are viewing the alternate timeline, which had the time travel part nullified. Then again, that could also be a last minute joke made by the creators. It all depends on which timeline we're viewing - the nullified timeline or the original timeline. In either case, it could also be following another method of time travel - in which events are premeditated to occur, and the timeline cannot be altered. In which case, Phineas and Ferb would HAVE to go to the future to get the tool to find out about themselves, as that was what would happen - which would then indicate an alternate timeline at the end of the show. TL;DR - depending on how they have done it this could either be canon or not. SomeoneD 20:10, September 21, 2009 (UTC) :Just watched it - the end credits made almost everything non-canon, but the good future shown is true as nothing proved it wrong. We're looking at alternate realities for everything in that episode except for the good future, in fact, so we should approach this like Back to the Future Wiki. The Flash' {talk} 00:34, September 22, 2009 (UTC)' : OMG! I just watched the episode and it was AMAZING!!!!!! I love the part about Aunt Isabella. AWESOME!--Platypuslover11 03:34, September 22, 2009 (UTC) ::Nothing proved the good future wrong? Flash, with probability the way it is, now that they have seen their future and Phineas and Ferb even got advice on how to make their future this way, it is very unlikely for this future to happen, unless of course it is because they went to the future that made the future the way it is, so yea... it is either highly unlikely due to probability, or highly likely because they were supposed to go to the future. felinoel ~ (Talk) 19:06, September 22, 2009 (UTC) Allow me to make things even more confusing (watch out, there are spoilers) : If Isabella gave Phineas the wood-metal device, then they would never go to the future. Therefore, P+F+I would never go to the future, thus never giving Isabella a chance to get the device or go back to the past. Therefore, she would never give Phineas the device, causing them to go to the future to find it, giving Isabella the means to find the device and go back to the past, starting the chain all over again. Thus, the creators have created one big loop of a paradox. Then again, the creators never fully applied the laws of time travel to the episodes anyway. In "It's About Time!" they let past events change the future, like when Candace made an impression in some mud and it became a fossil, only for it to change once they boys ran over it. If one believes in the 'the-future-is-unalterable-and-so-is-the-past' theory (if you don't know what it is, read Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, it explains it.) then the whole premise of the episode has to be thrown out. ...Well, wouldja look at that, I've gotten all theoretical about a children's TV show. XD 00:20, September 23, 2009 (UTC) :fel: Not, still, if this episode never happened, that future would still exist. Just because Phineas and Ferb once traveled to the future doesn't mean it doesn't exist - I don't agree with you at all that it is "unlikely" to happen as nothing proved it wrong. The Flash {talk} 01:15, September 23, 2009 (UTC) ::That is not what I said, what I said was that due to the laws of probability, knowledge of future events is likely to change those events. An example would be that if you were worried about a test so you went to the future to see how you did and saw you did very well and because of that went back to the present less worried about the test. You would likely find yourself to not do as well, mostly because you didn't study as hard as you originally did, because you were originally very worried. So the knowledge that they have gained from the future, will cause them to act differently, do different things, and change the future and as I said earlier this is all untrue if this knowledge of the future is what causes them to have that future. felinoel ~ (Talk) 05:20, September 23, 2009 (UTC) :::Well, I dont know about that-i think that future is what'll happen, as I said on another board: ::::"Technically, Candace going back in time to bust the boys would create a temporal paradox as well, as she would never go back and bust them if they had already been busted, and lab-coat Candace couldnt o back if she stopped herself, so a loop would have formed instead of her disappearing. Since those was allowed to happen, it is probably safe to assume that nothing except Phineas and Ferb aquiring the tool from Isabella happens in the end. I'm more interested in the fact that the Time Machine Candace used that was destroyed was actually the machine from before the museum existed, as it was brought to the future by the inventor. Since it was brought to the future, then destroyed in the past, how did it end up in the museum? The whole thing is a mess, which is why I'm guessing Isabella decided to essentially stop the events from happening-yet they still recieve the tool for the same reasons that the temporal paradoxes never occured.This means the Future should stay the same. Wow, migraine" :::so yeah, whats my view (it was in response to something about a temporal paradox) PeachesThePlatypus 10:45, September 24, 2009 (UTC) :::::It is probable that the future won't stay the same because Phineas, Ferb, and the rest retained knowledge of the future, and as I said, that knowledge will cause them to act differently bringing forth a different future, unless of course (as I said) they were supposed to get that knowledge in the future (like Fry from Futurama being his own grandpa or the Doctor from Doctor Who meeting the Queen of England to find that she wants his head on a pike for some reason unknown to him (when he found out why was a good episode)). felinoel ~ (Talk) 21:44, September 24, 2009 (UTC) :::::Flash: I do see what Felinoel is saying here. Also, it is wrong to assume something when there is no solid facts to back it up. In this case, you said "Not, still, if this episode never happened, that future would still exist." How do we know for certain that the future that Phineas and Ferb saw will indeed exist when that time comes? With one event, there are (or could be) infinite possible outcomes, and know that for certain that changing the future CANNOT change the present, but changing the past can change the present, and changing the present can affect the future. Even if Phineas and Ferb did not travel to the future, that does not automatically mean that that particular future exists or will exist. No one will EVER know what the future will be like. That's the reality of things. It is possible that future knowledge (by traveling to the future) can cause one to change events in the present and thereby nullify that future and put another future in its place. That is a possibility that science fiction stories have done numerous times in the last couple of decades or even longer. Remember, what we do know will affect us down the road. BigNeerav 00:31, September 25, 2009 (UTC) : OK. Pause. Rewind. *makes rewinder noises while holding hands in front, palms out, and making backwards circle with arms* Ok, at the end of the episode, in the end credits, Isabella goes back to the "past." Pause. The "past" we're talking about here is the day Phineas and Ferb are building the huge-normous metal super-structure majingamabob for Baljeet. The episode starts with Phineas and Ferb helping Baljeet build the aforementioned super-structre. So, wouldn't our "past" here be actually the "present"? Unless, of course, we're considering the day exactly twenty years after the roller coaster was built the "present", even though in the technicality, the events occurring twenty years after Roller Coaster Day is in the norm considerable the "future". In the other technicality, if we consider Roller Coaster Day the "present", then that would make the aforementioned event what with Baljeet and the super-structure majing-a-majing kabobber the "future". But, we're considering Roller Coaster Day the "past", now, ain't we? Is it really right to even put these "past, present, future" labels on these things? Is it just me, or is all this "past, present, future" blood making everything more confusing than it needs to? Ok, unpause. I need to finish my point. So, Isabella goes back to Super-Structure Day to give Phineas and Ferb the wood-metal fusing ma-ka-bobber they need. As a result (and this was stated in the episode!) Phineas and Ferb did not go into the future. As a result, "Quantum Boogaloo" never happened. As a result, Isabella never went back to Super-Structure Day to give Phineas and Ferb the wood-metal fuser mabobber they needed. As a result, Phineas and Ferb DO go into the future, and "Quantum Boogaloo" does indeed happen. As a result, Isabella DOES go back to Super-Structure Day to give Phineas and Ferb the wooder-fuser-metal mah-thing-a-mah-thing (how many characters was that!). And the cycle contines, on and on into forever and ever ahhhhhh-men. However, BigNeerav has a point, too. Nobody will ever know what the future will be like. Or, more simply stated "The future does not exist. The past does not exist. The present will always exist. We're kinda stuck in it." If you got abso-tively posu-lutely n-o idea what I'm taking about, just say so and I'll translate to the best of my abilites. Sheeczit, that was a lot. Smilez221 3:10, October 29, 2009 (UTC) Were asking the wrong questions, what we really should be asking if in future episodes if we are looking the the universe where they went to the future, or when isabella gave them the thing they where looking for,--TimeCore 23:53, November 25, 2009 (UTC) :The on ly explanation would be that Isabella created a temporal paradox (inadvertantly, I must say) by travelling back in time to give the boys the steel-wood fusing tool, which means that they don't go to the future, but they do... it's just confusing. American Che AHH! WHAT A STUPID KABOB! Why did I buy so many mops? 22:16, November 25, 2009 (UTC) ---- Anybody played Jak & Daxter? *HUGE spoiler alert*, if you haven't. The first game of Jak & Daxter starts on a lush, happy little island, with Jak and his friend Daxter. At the end of the game, the main characters travel through a portal (not sure if they know it's a time machine, at the moment) into the future, where the same island that they grew up on has become industrialized, dark, however you want to say it. *IN THIS WORLD* is where Jak was born. You assist a younger version of the "green sage" (Samos) and the young, child version of Jak through a similar time portal that your gal-pal creates or fixes, I forget, sorry, which sends the young version of both Jak and Samos into the past, where they assumedly meet up with Daxter, and grows, into what we see in the first game... This is a paradox in the games story, I know. I'm not sure what this kind of time glitch or instance is called, but a similar thing happens in P&F, I'm assuming. Probably doesn't shed any light on the answer of the episode, but like in the game, The adult Jak could not have helped the younger Jak to become the older Jak, if he didn't help him get to the past, where he would grow up to become himself. Young Jak and older Jak both remember nothing, until older Jak sees the younger Jak off, into the past I don't know about Samos, though he obviously had not before told Jak about his origins. VvVvVvV Conclusion VvVvVvV I don't know if there is a name for this kind of time travel theory, I thought it was "string theory", but a quick wikipedia on that set me straight. Basically, a timeline is solid. Every event that happens in or on the timeline only moves forward, even if a time-traveller goes to the past. Everything happens for a reason, more or less. Isabella bringing Phineas and Ferb the Wood-Metal fusion tool was bound to happen, and therefore happens. (I think the alternate universe theory is kind of what the solid timeline is, in professional terms, but that's another can of worms altogether) I kind of thought about a theory that each individual person has their own personal timeline, and as such, Isabella is the person whose timeline is viewed in/throughout the episode, though it is explained by/through Candace. If Isabella gives Phineas and Ferb the tool before the episode starts, and the world doesn't implode/reset itself, Isabella would know about the future, but not Phineas or Ferb. However, Isabella stayed inside the time machine, watching/guarding it for the most part of the episode, so she doesn't know too much about her future, which still isn't fully set in stone, assumingly, though this would throw off the series' perception of time. The episode pokes fun at itself for being inconsistent, when there are two future Candaces, and Phineas points out that the "Bad" alternate Candace should be gone, since her duty is completed, though she does not disappear until Phineas points this out. Remember, it's only a cartoon. Though it's awesome, great, probably one of the best, it does not always have to apply by the laws of rationality/reality, though we may really really want it to. Tl;dr, it's a paradox, but it still exists/happens. Sorry and apologies in advance about the incredibly long rant/post/addition. Not sure if "American Che" already explained the same thing with two words (loltemporalparadox), but whats there to lose. ---- Well I wanna talk about what it's like in the future. Phineas and Ferb are 30-years-old 20 years in the future. Hallelujah! An age conformation! But where did their mom say Ferb was? Camp David/Davies. What is the minimum age limit for taking the oath in office? 35. And what cermony is Phineas at in Switzerland? Either their mom is dumb or they relocated the Nobel Peace prize ceremony. They also decreased the age limit for being president. Oh yeah and I know that Candace married Jeremy because of Amanda's head shape and Xavier's hair and eyes. Isabella was mentioned to be Xavier, Fred and Amanda's aunt. Ferb is in love with Vanessa and vice versa so I know that Isabella couldn't be Ferb's spouse. That gives me another theory. What if Vanessa is president and Ferb is the first man? Maldgiatos 23:10, December 20, 2009 (UTC) (*Sigh*) You people are fun. I would just like to agree with Maldgiatos about one thing; IT'S A CARTOON!!! therefore it can have as many illogical shenanigans and/or time paradoxes as Mr. Povenmire and Mr. Marsh should wish, Which is of course why we love cartoons, they don't make sense, they're not supposed to make sense and they're fun to watch. So let's put our theories of time-travel aside and enjoy the genius of Phineas and Ferb. You know when someone says a person is 30 or that they're 30 doesn't mean they are that exact age, it could be a rounded number. In fact I tell people my mom is 30 when asked when in reality she's 34. It could have also been more or less than 20 years in the future, it could once again be an estimate. But as for the whole time thing and how it's a paradox and etc...it's Disney, things aren't complicated in Disney, especially a cartoon. Just take this all in the simplist way imaginable. The time paradox doesnt exist, and Isabella ends up marrying Phineas. If she ended up seeing Ferb or it didnt work out with Phineas we would end up with Hannah Montana drama, which I know won't happenEriktheEagle 00:40, April 20, 2010 (UTC) Regarding